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Is there a cmavo meaning 'From the beginning of the text unit, go back and find this quoted word [like sa] but replace it with this second word instead of just erasing everything from here to the beginning'?
try lo'ai A sa'ai B le'ai :)
I've been trying to learn Lojban, but the vocabulary is a bit of a barrier. Any recommendations for learning?
I've been trying to learn Lojban, but the vocabulary is a bit of a barrier.
Any recommendations for learning?
try the pre-made lessons on smart.fm, they are pretty nice :)another very important aspect is to actually try to speak lojban to people. you should totally go to the lojban irc channel (#lojban on irc.freenode.net)
How do I say this compactly? (or at all?)eg.{le nixli be sela'u lo cunso namcu}is the best I've been able to devise.I feel that {[lo] cunso namcu} should be able to fill the outer or inner quantifier of {le nixli}, but haven't managed it. So far I've tried ni'e and mo'e conversion cmavo, but they don't seem to be workable. I've also tried ni abstraction, which so far seems to mean I end up talking about a random quantification of X, rather than a random quantity of X (that is, the quantifier 'random number of [monkeys]' rather than actual monkeys, whom there are a random quantity of.)
How do I say this compactly? (or at all?)
eg.
{le nixli be sela'u lo cunso namcu}
is the best I've been able to devise.I feel that {[lo] cunso namcu} should be able to fill the outer or inner quantifier of {le nixli}, but haven't managed it. So far I've tried ni'e and mo'e conversion cmavo, but they don't seem to be workable. I've also tried ni abstraction, which so far seems to mean I end up talking about a random quantification of X, rather than a random quantity of X (that is, the quantifier 'random number of [monkeys]' rather than actual monkeys, whom there are a random quantity of.)
>>1582a) I doubt you really meant a girlish random-quantification. That would probably be a random number generated via entropy source: girls o_Ob) picu'o is an interesting thought. It is a selbri though, so you might mean lo vei ni'e picu'o ve'o nixli-- I'm pretty sure random quantifiers don't really make sense with l[oae]'i, per http://dag.github.com/cll/6/4/{lo'i picu'o nixli} reads to me as 'the set of probabilistically-occurring girls' .u'i
>>1583a) IMO that was «girlish (random quantity)», wasn't it? «cunlai be lo'i nixli» was better, but much longer.b) no, that meant to be «lo'i (picu'o nixli)». When the «random amount» made up by random selection of/on each of the girls, it is the «set of randomly selected girls», or, i hope, «with some probability type of girl». However, in the case of «choose the random number, and then get that many girls», that would be inappropriate.
>>1583a) IMO that was «girlish (random quantity)», wasn't it? «cunlai be lo'i nixli» was better, but much longer.
b) no, that meant to be «lo'i (picu'o nixli)». When the «random amount» made up by random selection of/on each of the girls, it is the «set of randomly selected girls», or, i hope, «with some probability type of girl». However, in the case of «choose the random number, and then get that many girls», that would be inappropriate.
>>1584 a) Indeed, I was wrong. {lo nixli cunlai} seems reasonable.b) I understood the problem with lo'i as being that it was global: the entire set, not just this set here I'm talking about.{le'i picu'o nixli} also seems reasonable. or perhaps {lo'i vi picu'o nixli}
I started to learn lojban yesterday and i was wondering how much time will it take me to learn all the important grammer and a large vocabulry so i can actually speak lojbanthanks.
I started to learn lojban yesterday and i was wondering how much time will it take me to learn all the important grammer and a large vocabulry so i can actually speak lojban
thanks.
>>1568I've completed Lojban for Beginners, do you think the Wave Lessons are of any good to me now?
>>1576 I think that L4B cover less than the wave lessons, since those are under development. What I encourage is to ask for some help in the IRC channel, because there are some things that changed (mainly "xorlo").The other suggestion is to read texts and learn a nice amount of vocabulary, since you already know the grammar.
>>1577ki'e leos
I think I find a source of phonetic ambiguity in Lojban. It's lujvo in the form CCVCV'V. For example, say "ba stiri'a" and then "basti ri'a". Any difference? I think it's serious.
that should have read "on the last syllable" of course. i think you are allowed to stress the last cmavo, if it's CV'V or CV'VV on the first syllable [citation needed]
See Rule 5 in:http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/c4/s9.html
thanks, that explains everything
Here is my attempted translation of the Three Oaths of Aes Sedai (from Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series). want a review of my work, please. I suggest reading this page (and associated material from the books, etc.) before reading these, that way you can provide the best assistance: http://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/~MRB49/3Oaths1.html .fi la gusni fa mi nupre lenu mi noroi cusku* su'opa lo valsi poi ke'a na'e jetnu ku'o .ijebofi la gusni fa mi nupre lenu mi noroi zbasu su'opa lo xarci tezu'e lenu su'opa lo prenu xacpli le xarci lenu le prenu cu catra su'opa lo remna ku'o ku'o ku'o .ijebofi la gusni fa mi nupre lenu mi noroi xacpli la .pav. mafnejn. va'onai lenu ri po'o su'opa la .ctinsef. ku mi xarci keiku .a lenu fanmo tadji bandu le zazjmive po mi .a su'opa lo mensi be mi bei leka me la'o bau Aes Sedai bau keiku be'o .a la badypre pebo mi ku'o*Here, I did not know how to translate "speak". It /is/ predominantly the equivalent of [zo <<bacru>>], but not always. The unfortunate side of "express" seems to be that it would be broken too frequently by the actions of Aes Sedai in the series and the terbri structure may be off in my working of it. Comment is too long. Go here to view the full text.
Here is my attempted translation of the Three Oaths of Aes Sedai (from Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series). want a review of my work, please. I suggest reading this page (and associated material from the books, etc.) before reading these, that way you can provide the best assistance: http://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/~MRB49/3Oaths1.html .
fi la gusni fa mi nupre lenu mi noroi cusku* su'opa lo valsi poi ke'a na'e jetnu ku'o .ijebo
fi la gusni fa mi nupre lenu mi noroi zbasu su'opa lo xarci tezu'e lenu su'opa lo prenu xacpli le xarci lenu le prenu cu catra su'opa lo remna ku'o ku'o ku'o .ijebo
fi la gusni fa mi nupre lenu mi noroi xacpli la .pav. mafnejn. va'onai lenu ri po'o su'opa la .ctinsef. ku mi xarci keiku .a lenu fanmo tadji bandu le zazjmive po mi .a su'opa lo mensi be mi bei leka me la'o bau Aes Sedai bau keiku be'o .a la badypre pebo mi ku'o
*Here, I did not know how to translate "speak". It /is/ predominantly the equivalent of [zo <<bacru>>], but not always. The unfortunate side of "express" seems to be that it would be broken too frequently by the actions of Aes Sedai in the series and the terbri structure may be off in my working of it.
>>1561I like the point about "asserting no falsehood". :)Okay, I will shorten it.In the books there are monsters that are sentient. By saying "make no weapon for one person to kill a human", that means that they could not make weapons for the monsters to attack humanity but /can/ make weapons by which humanity may attack the monsters. This seems to be the spirit of their Oaths. (Hope that that made sense)
>>1561
I like the point about "asserting no falsehood". :)
Okay, I will shorten it.
In the books there are monsters that are sentient. By saying "make no weapon for one person to kill a human", that means that they could not make weapons for the monsters to attack humanity but /can/ make weapons by which humanity may attack the monsters. This seems to be the spirit of their Oaths. (Hope that that made sense)
Also, you should probably use "nu'e" rather than "nupre" for the oath. "nupre" is to report someone making an oath, "nu'e" is for actually making the oath. Something like:.ipamai nu'e la gusni mi cusku no valsi poi na jetnu.iremai nu'e la gusni mi noroi zbasu lo xarci be lo prenu bei lo drata.icimai nu'e la gusni mi na pilno ...
Also, you should probably use "nu'e" rather than "nupre" for the oath. "nupre" is to report someone making an oath, "nu'e" is for actually making the oath. Something like:
.ipamai nu'e la gusni mi cusku no valsi poi na jetnu.iremai nu'e la gusni mi noroi zbasu lo xarci be lo prenu bei lo drata.icimai nu'e la gusni mi na pilno ...
lo nupre be fi lo gusni doesn't seem right to me. Swearing by/on/under something isn't the same as addressing the promise to it. I'd look into a modal like ri'i (giving nu'e a more appropriate addressee). Other choices might be si'u, zau, se zu'e....
Cool? Y/N?
nice .i'esai
Final render! Unless anyone wants anything else changed. So, higher quality, better edges, ratio fixed. Now -I'm- satisfied, but I'm sure someone will want something fixed/changed somehow. Also, Lindar wanted a wallpaper-sized one, so here's that. If anyone else wants a particular resolution, let me know and I'll toss that up here too.
Final render! Unless anyone wants anything else changed. So, higher quality, better edges, ratio fixed. Now -I'm- satisfied, but I'm sure someone will want something fixed/changed somehow.
Also, Lindar wanted a wallpaper-sized one, so here's that. If anyone else wants a particular resolution, let me know and I'll toss that up here too.
coi do'o. I like to make charts for {lo nu cilre be fi la lojban}. I find the CLL tables to be helpful but a little too verbose for ready use. This is a chart I made about lo lojbo namcu cmavo. I have another chart or two (eg spatial/temporal cmavo) in progress... Suggestions welcomed. .o'a zei .ui bu.
ki'e djeims. .i xamgu danfuI've nearly finished remaking this into SVG, which I had always planned. I've gotten things grouped and labelled nicely, thanks to your feedback :)(BTW, the improved chart will also include the rafsi forms for the numbers 0-9 (pav, rel, ..))I have no idea where you think I wrote marrix. It's probably not too important, but if you can be more specific, I might be able to fix whatever it is.I believe I've fixed all other issues you highlighted ( I presume you meant no'u rather than na'u; na'u actually should be on the sheet but wasn't). I'll upload it shortly.
ki'e djeims. .i xamgu danfu
I've nearly finished remaking this into SVG, which I had always planned. I've gotten things grouped and labelled nicely, thanks to your feedback :)(BTW, the improved chart will also include the rafsi forms for the numbers 0-9 (pav, rel, ..))
I have no idea where you think I wrote marrix. It's probably not too important, but if you can be more specific, I might be able to fix whatever it is.I believe I've fixed all other issues you highlighted ( I presume you meant no'u rather than na'u; na'u actually should be on the sheet but wasn't). I'll upload it shortly.
le basti.
le remoi basti {the second replacement}Captions are now lojbanized, though you shouldn't have to try very hard to understand them. "Matrix" was left non-lojbanized, as nacmeimei is not very obviously meaning 'matrix'.
le remoi basti {the second replacement}
Captions are now lojbanized, though you shouldn't have to try very hard to understand them. "Matrix" was left non-lojbanized, as nacmeimei is not very obviously meaning 'matrix'.
How do you say "fifty or sixty people" without repeating "prenu", i.e. connecting only numbers? Also, is there a way to say "the [8 or 9]th day" without repeating "moi"? Thank you.
>>1528([zo'o] Cool name)
>>1528
([zo'o] Cool name)
>>1530{lo mu no ji'i xa no prenu} is "five thousand and (approximately) sixty people", according to the CLL. http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/c18/s9.html{ji'i mu mu} or {mu ji'i mu} might be better, despite the odd appearance. {mu no'o} is another possibility.
>>1530
{lo mu no ji'i xa no prenu} is "five thousand and (approximately) sixty people", according to the CLL. http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/c18/s9.html
{ji'i mu mu} or {mu ji'i mu} might be better, despite the odd appearance. {mu no'o} is another possibility.
>>1536Yet another possibility is {vei ji'i mu no bi'o ji'i xa no prenu}.As for the "(8 or 9)th day" thing, the grammar could use a change here. The rule that says "(number | lerfu-string) MOI" could be changed to "operand-3 MOI". Actually, almost all the places where 'quantifier' and 'number' are referenced could be changed to 'operand-3', I think.
>>1536
Yet another possibility is {vei ji'i mu no bi'o ji'i xa no prenu}.
As for the "(8 or 9)th day" thing, the grammar could use a change here. The rule that says "(number | lerfu-string) MOI" could be changed to "operand-3 MOI". Actually, almost all the places where 'quantifier' and 'number' are referenced could be changed to 'operand-3', I think.
I'm a computer programmer, and got mixed up with the wrong crowd!In the depths of my ignorance, {setinbe} would seem to almost make a passable word for "program". Mainly because it was the only word I could find that had that "giving orders x_2" anywhere involved. What with orders or commands being the usual stuff that goes into source code. In most languages. But we usually don't really call them "commands" as such . . .See why I wish I had a word for it?
You're the second person to ask this. It's "sampla". Use http://vlasisku.lojban.org/ and http://lojban.org/tiki/conversation+guide if you need to find vocab that's not on the gimste. You should also get on the lojban maling list on google groups if you don't like the current word and would like to discuss other options.
>>1534Thanks! As a matter of fact, I don't like it much, but I can't think of a better way to phrase it, really. And I don't feel too contentious as such a late-comer to a community of a couple hundred. And besides, it's not like the derivation of "program [verb]" is that reasonable either. From "itinerary [noun]" to "compose a sequence of commands [totally a verb clause]"? I'm just glad {sampla} takes less than four words to express.Thanks again!