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"klama lo zarci vo'e" means which:"klama lo zarci xi pa lo zarci xi pa"or"klama lo zarci xi pa lo zarci xi re"?
"klama lo zarci vo'e" means which:
"klama lo zarci xi pa lo zarci xi pa"or"klama lo zarci xi pa lo zarci xi re"?
klama lo zarci vo'e= klama lo zarci ri= klama lo zarci goi ko'a ko'aIf you want to use subscripts, I suggest "lo zarci ku xi pa", with "ku", rather than "lo zarci xi pa", because in the latter the subscript goes with the inner selbri, not with the sumti, so it suggests (possibly) different zarci relationships rather than (possibly) different markets.
klama lo zarci vo'e= klama lo zarci ri= klama lo zarci goi ko'a ko'a
If you want to use subscripts, I suggest "lo zarci ku xi pa", with "ku", rather than "lo zarci xi pa", because in the latter the subscript goes with the inner selbri, not with the sumti, so it suggests (possibly) different zarci relationships rather than (possibly) different markets.
Is "da nage broda gi brode" grammatical? If so, what does it mean?
For grammaticality I've asked jboski: http://www.lojban.org/jboski/index.php (an online interface to jbofi'e).It seems that it is grammatical and means:"X is not both Y and Z"with Y and Z referring to previous bridi assigned with {cei}.But I might be wrong ...
For grammaticality I've asked jboski: http://www.lojban.org/jboski/index.php (an online interface to jbofi'e).It seems that it is grammatical and means:
"X is not both Y and Z"
with Y and Z referring to previous bridi assigned with {cei}.
But I might be wrong ...
It means the same as "da ganai broda ginai brode" and "da na broda ija da na brode". In other words, "da" is not both "broda" and "brode", just as >>1427 wrote.
>>1427 >>1428I agree.(With CLL negation rules it's probably "roda ganai broda ginai brode" though. I say "probably" because I'm not sure whether this particular case is considered explicitly.)
>>1427 >>1428
I agree.
(With CLL negation rules it's probably "roda ganai broda ginai brode" though. I say "probably" because I'm not sure whether this particular case is considered explicitly.)
coi everyone! I'm new to Lojban and am looking at getting into the community and learning more about it. I'm very interested in Lojban and would like to improve my usage by immersing myself in the culture. Where is the best place to start to learn Lojban, any tips/tricks? Thanks for the help and I look forward to lojbaning with you!
coi grimlessI would suggest lurking the IRC and listening to the conversations people have (the relevant ones at least). Depending on your tolerance for technical terms you can learn by reading the Complete Lojban Language (a draft version is freely available on the lojban website) nearly front to back. A bit of a suggestion is to find a word list sorted by frequency (again available on the website) and mark or note the frequency score next to each word in the "words discussed in this section" lists. I say this because it really tells you where to pay close attention. When writing my own lojban, I use jboski (a parser) to test my syntax. Finally, I suggest using some of the learning software on the website to grow your vocabulary while you learn from the book.Have fun!Disclaimer: I am (somewhat of) a beginner too. =D
coi grimlessI would suggest lurking the IRC and listening to the conversations people have (the relevant ones at least). Depending on your tolerance for technical terms you can learn by reading the Complete Lojban Language (a draft version is freely available on the lojban website) nearly front to back. A bit of a suggestion is to find a word list sorted by frequency (again available on the website) and mark or note the frequency score next to each word in the "words discussed in this section" lists. I say this because it really tells you where to pay close attention. When writing my own lojban, I use jboski (a parser) to test my syntax. Finally, I suggest using some of the learning software on the website to grow your vocabulary while you learn from the book.Have fun!
Disclaimer: I am (somewhat of) a beginner too. =D
Thanks for the suggestions! I will be sure to do all of those! Thanks again and I hope to see you around.
I suggest "lojban for beginners" or "what is lojban". Both available at lojban.org . If you are interested in the lojban community, the best place is #lojban at freenode.
Why is it that "lo ro djedi" means "everyday" and "lo ro moi djedi" means "the last day"? How is "every" related to "last"?
Uhhh...Everyday = plain, ordinary, unremarkable.Every day = each dayClarify your meaning, then we'll clarify ours.
Uhhh...Everyday = plain, ordinary, unremarkable.Every day = each day
Clarify your meaning, then we'll clarify ours.
It MAY be that who did it tried to convert ro into a number. However I guess that, if it worked would refer to the infinitely last day. Why not pavprucabydei ?
>>1418Well, "ro" is a numeral in Lojban, equivalent to "2" or "7" or "te'o". Lojban extends the cardinal (group of N members) vs ordinal (the Nth member) distinction to all numerals, so one can speak about "2mei" (a pair; a group of 2 things) and "romei" (a complete group; a group of N things, where N = the total number of things), and one can speak about "2moi" (the 2nd thing, the Nth thing where N = 2) and "romoi" (the "every-th" thing, the Nth thing, where N = the total number of things). One can use any word in PA in this way, so one can speak about the "few-th" thing ("so'umoi", the Nth thing, where N = a small number), or the "enough-th" thing ("raumoi", the Nth thing, where N = the number of things which is enough). I hope this helps.
>>1418
Well, "ro" is a numeral in Lojban, equivalent to "2" or "7" or "te'o". Lojban extends the cardinal (group of N members) vs ordinal (the Nth member) distinction to all numerals, so one can speak about "2mei" (a pair; a group of 2 things) and "romei" (a complete group; a group of N things, where N = the total number of things), and one can speak about "2moi" (the 2nd thing, the Nth thing where N = 2) and "romoi" (the "every-th" thing, the Nth thing, where N = the total number of things). One can use any word in PA in this way, so one can speak about the "few-th" thing ("so'umoi", the Nth thing, where N = a small number), or the "enough-th" thing ("raumoi", the Nth thing, where N = the number of things which is enough). I hope this helps.
Could someone show me how to use the calculus operations of differentiation (sa'o) and integration (ri'o)?I also am newish to calculus, so I do not even know what "over range c" means for integration. I know that the derivative has "of degree c", so if c were to be 2, wouldn't that be the second derviative of the function with respect to some variable? Is this kind of the same thing for integration, just called differently? If not, how would I say the double integral of the function with respect to some variable?
Could someone show me how to use the calculus operations of differentiation (sa'o) and integration (ri'o)?
I also am newish to calculus, so I do not even know what "over range c" means for integration. I know that the derivative has "of degree c", so if c were to be 2, wouldn't that be the second derviative of the function with respect to some variable? Is this kind of the same thing for integration, just called differently? If not, how would I say the double integral of the function with respect to some variable?
I am not a newbie to calculus (IMO), however, I've sadly not made much use of the mekso.I suppose you've been doing derivatives at this point, and maybe you know that integration "undoes" derivation. If you've been paying attention, you'll've noticed that when you derive something, it drops the constants. And, from f'(x)'s point of view, that number could have been anything.So, one of the ways that you deal with this is you evaluate the integral at one value, then at another value, and subtract the two. The subtraction cancels out whatever that constant would be.(Of course, now I'm wondering how the limits of integration, and the indefinite integral, would be written)
I am not a newbie to calculus (IMO), however, I've sadly not made much use of the mekso.
I suppose you've been doing derivatives at this point, and maybe you know that integration "undoes" derivation. If you've been paying attention, you'll've noticed that when you derive something, it drops the constants. And, from f'(x)'s point of view, that number could have been anything.
So, one of the ways that you deal with this is you evaluate the integral at one value, then at another value, and subtract the two. The subtraction cancels out whatever that constant would be.
(Of course, now I'm wondering how the limits of integration, and the indefinite integral, would be written)
>>1416"bi'o" for limits and "zi'o" for indefinite?
>>1416
"bi'o" for limits and "zi'o" for indefinite?
How do you express "broda right in front of ko'a"?
>>1411 "ki" is used to fix a reference point, so the term "ki ko'a" will fix "ko'a" as the reference point.
>>1411
"ki" is used to fix a reference point, so the term "ki ko'a" will fix "ko'a" as the reference point.
>>1412Isn't that the other way around? According to CLL, "ki" works left-wise:http://www.lojban.org/no/publications/reference_grammar/chapter10.html
>>1412
Isn't that the other way around? According to CLL, "ki" works left-wise:http://www.lojban.org/no/publications/reference_grammar/chapter10.html
>>1413"ki" will be the last member in a compound tag, but "ko'a" is the tagged sumti, not part of the tag. The tagged sumti comes after the tag.
>>1413
"ki" will be the last member in a compound tag, but "ko'a" is the tagged sumti, not part of the tag. The tagged sumti comes after the tag.
At first, I found Lojban's rafsi system inconvenient, as the forms are not always predictable (e.g. "cal" and "ca'u" of "canlu"), while in Esperanto every word's stem form for a compound is predictable (e.g. "spac" of "spaco" by simply leaving out the suffix). But the Lojban rafsi may actually be a good thing. They never form into a homonym. But the Esperanto stems sometimes do. Examples: filino => fil-in-o (son girl = daughter) => fi-lin-o (dirty linen) propraokule => propr-a-okul-e (proper eye) => propr-a-ok-ul-e (proper eight guy) => pro-pra-okul-e (due-to ancient eye) => pro-pra-ok-ul-e (due-to ancient eight guy) Comment is too long. Go here to view the full text.
At first, I found Lojban's rafsi system inconvenient, as the forms are not always predictable (e.g. "cal" and "ca'u" of "canlu"), while in Esperanto every word's stem form for a compound is predictable (e.g. "spac" of "spaco" by simply leaving out the suffix). But the Lojban rafsi may actually be a good thing. They never form into a homonym. But the Esperanto stems sometimes do. Examples:
filino => fil-in-o (son girl = daughter) => fi-lin-o (dirty linen)
propraokule => propr-a-okul-e (proper eye) => propr-a-ok-ul-e (proper eight guy) => pro-pra-okul-e (due-to ancient eye) => pro-pra-ok-ul-e (due-to ancient eight guy)
There are plenty of similar-sounding words (egg vs. soda), and there are many cmavo that are the same as rafsi, so it's fun to play on mishearing cmavo as rafsi applied as a lujvo.Example: {mi ca'o klama}Means (and can only mean): I continue to go.Funny mishearing: I window-go.You can't have {ca'oklama} as a lujvo because it fails to have a cluster in the first five letters. So, it's funny, but we really don't have anything that falls apart like that (see 'tosmabru'), but it's funny to reply, when one says {mi ca'o broda}, with {ma canko}.
There are plenty of similar-sounding words (egg vs. soda), and there are many cmavo that are the same as rafsi, so it's fun to play on mishearing cmavo as rafsi applied as a lujvo.
Example: {mi ca'o klama}
Means (and can only mean): I continue to go.Funny mishearing: I window-go.
You can't have {ca'oklama} as a lujvo because it fails to have a cluster in the first five letters. So, it's funny, but we really don't have anything that falls apart like that (see 'tosmabru'), but it's funny to reply, when one says {mi ca'o broda}, with {ma canko}.
>>1403mi'e la .lindar.(New machine!)
>>1403
mi'e la .lindar.
(New machine!)
>>1400There's a small list of Esperanto homonyms at:http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/w.htmlThe rules for building Lojban compound-words (lujvo) are designed so that there's only one possible way to break apart each word. Theoretically, a fu'ivla can have multiple definitions, but in practice when this happens both remain as type-3 fu'ivla, with a classifier rafsi attached to the front to distinguish which meaning is intended.>>1403Technically, "ca'oklama" has a consonant cluster in the first five non-apostrophe, non-"y" letters. "ca'o" breaks off in this case because the consonant cluster "kl" is a valid initial cluster, and "ca'o" doesn't have any stress. "ca'orklama" is a lujvo because "rk" isn't a valid initial cluster, and "ca'okla" is a lujvo because the "o" is stressed. Comment is too long. Go here to view the full text.
>>1400
There's a small list of Esperanto homonyms at:http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/w.html
The rules for building Lojban compound-words (lujvo) are designed so that there's only one possible way to break apart each word. Theoretically, a fu'ivla can have multiple definitions, but in practice when this happens both remain as type-3 fu'ivla, with a classifier rafsi attached to the front to distinguish which meaning is intended.
Technically, "ca'oklama" has a consonant cluster in the first five non-apostrophe, non-"y" letters. "ca'o" breaks off in this case because the consonant cluster "kl" is a valid initial cluster, and "ca'o" doesn't have any stress. "ca'orklama" is a lujvo because "rk" isn't a valid initial cluster, and "ca'okla" is a lujvo because the "o" is stressed.
What is the Lojban equivalent of the Esperanto "triobla"?
>>1394I wonder if you could do something with VEhA as like what is done in ZAhO*. Ie make ve'u, somehow, mean twice larger region of space. (Maybe PA4 it?)
>>1394I don't know Esperanto very well, but I guess what you're talking about can be said in Lojban with "klani", e.g., "lo klani be li ci" or "lo ciblai". However, I don't know what the differences between "triobla", "kvarope", and "po kvin" are, aside from the different numbers.
>>1394
I don't know Esperanto very well, but I guess what you're talking about can be said in Lojban with "klani", e.g., "lo klani be li ci" or "lo ciblai". However, I don't know what the differences between "triobla", "kvarope", and "po kvin" are, aside from the different numbers.
>>1394 "kvaropo" = "lo vo mei" = "a foursome""kvarope" would be "vo mei" used as a modifier, or perhaps "fi'o vo mei", depending on the context."po kvin" is just "mu" under the scope of another quantifier, normally "ro". There is no special word to do this in Lojban, you just have to put the quantifiers in the desired order."triobla" is more tricky. Perhaps "me li pi'i ci" would work, but we would need a full sentence to see how to fit it in.And you forgot: "sesono" = "fi'u xa".
"kvaropo" = "lo vo mei" = "a foursome""kvarope" would be "vo mei" used as a modifier, or perhaps "fi'o vo mei", depending on the context.
"po kvin" is just "mu" under the scope of another quantifier, normally "ro". There is no special word to do this in Lojban, you just have to put the quantifiers in the desired order.
"triobla" is more tricky. Perhaps "me li pi'i ci" would work, but we would need a full sentence to see how to fit it in.
And you forgot: "sesono" = "fi'u xa".
I've charted the number of articles of the Lojban wikipedia:http://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/ralju_ckupauand it's closest ones. As you can see, the race between lojban, wolof and Hakka is pretty close. If anyone is interested in makin Lojban win, please make some articles :) :p .
I've charted the number of articles of the Lojban wikipedia:
http://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/ralju_ckupau
and it's closest ones. As you can see, the race between lojban, wolof and Hakka is pretty close. If anyone is interested in makin Lojban win, please make some articles :) :p .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_languagehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolof_languagewikipedia languages of course
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_languagehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolof_language
wikipedia languages of course
Again, Lojban appears in black.You can see the rest at http://s23.org/wikistats/wikipedias_html.php?sort=good_desc
Again, Lojban appears in black.
You can see the rest at http://s23.org/wikistats/wikipedias_html.php?sort=good_desc
hehe, picture here
Is "mi ka'e pu klama" grammatical? If not, why?Thank you.
Is "mi ka'e pu klama" grammatical? If not, why?
Thank you.
>>1387Ah. That looks correct. I based my statement on jboski's failure to parse "mi ka'e pu klama".
>>1387
Ah. That looks correct. I based my statement on jboski's failure to parse "mi ka'e pu klama".
>>1387How does this change the meaning, or is simply a parsing issue?
How does this change the meaning, or is simply a parsing issue?
>>1389 ka'e pu: It is possible that in the past ...pu ka'e: In the past it was possible that ...
>>1389
ka'e pu: It is possible that in the past ...pu ka'e: In the past it was possible that ...