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How do numbers followed by gadri (or the reverse, or both) work? (Just link me).How would you say "in every way/manner/aspect" if the jbovla is calling for a terbri that is an aspect? (Such as the x2 of "perfect" or "typical")What is the difference between "piro le", "ro le", "le pi ro", and "le ro" (inwhich, every example would be followed by a brivla)?Also, how does one say "always" or "at all times". This would apply to past, present,a nd future, correct? How would one restrict that?
How do numbers followed by gadri (or the reverse, or both) work? (Just link me).
How would you say "in every way/manner/aspect" if the jbovla is calling for a terbri that is an aspect? (Such as the x2 of "perfect" or "typical")
What is the difference between "piro le", "ro le", "le pi ro", and "le ro" (inwhich, every example would be followed by a brivla)?
Also, how does one say "always" or "at all times". This would apply to past, present,a nd future, correct? How would one restrict that?
> totality questionDon't know what you mean.
> totality question
Don't know what you mean.
>>1315 ti prane ro se ckaji "This is perfect in every aspect.""Every time" is "ro roi". For something that lasts forever, there is "ze'e" (not many things last that long though).You can restrict the interval for "roi" with a sumti: mi catlu lo skina ci roi lo purlamnanca "I watched the movie three times last year." You can also give a specific duration for an event with "ze'a": Comment is too long. Go here to view the full text.
>>1315
ti prane ro se ckaji "This is perfect in every aspect."
"Every time" is "ro roi". For something that lasts forever, there is "ze'e" (not many things last that long though).
You can restrict the interval for "roi" with a sumti:
mi catlu lo skina ci roi lo purlamnanca "I watched the movie three times last year."
You can also give a specific duration for an event with "ze'a":
>>1329> ti prane ro se ckaji> "This is perfect in every aspect."Or:ti prane ro tcila
>>1329
> ti prane ro se ckaji> "This is perfect in every aspect."
Or:ti prane ro tcila
How does zo "pei" work? I've seen people put it in various places in an utterance, and on different sides of attitudinals. Is there a difference between ".o'apei" and "pei .o'a"? If so, what does "o'apei .ai" mean?Is there any place where I can get a full guide specifically to attitudinals and such? They seem really useful, interesting, and unfamiliar (in a good way, like "unique").How can I ask myself how I feel about something? Does "[cnivla] peise'i [cnivla]" work?
How does zo "pei" work? I've seen people put it in various places in an utterance, and on different sides of attitudinals. Is there a difference between ".o'apei" and "pei .o'a"? If so, what does "o'apei .ai" mean?
Is there any place where I can get a full guide specifically to attitudinals and such? They seem really useful, interesting, and unfamiliar (in a good way, like "unique").
How can I ask myself how I feel about something? Does "[cnivla] peise'i [cnivla]" work?
Chapter 13 of the reference grammar, sections 1-10, describe attitudinals in a fair amount of detail. (http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/)In particular, section 10 should answer your questions about "pei". (http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/c13/s10.html)Question words like "pei", "ma", and so on, are used for asking questions to whoever you're talking to. You can only ask yourself a question using those words if you're talking to yourself. If you are talking to yourself, e.g., "doi mi i pei", then the questions work just like any other questions. "peise'i" means "What-are-you-feeling, selfishly?", sort-of.
Chapter 13 of the reference grammar, sections 1-10, describe attitudinals in a fair amount of detail. (http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/)
In particular, section 10 should answer your questions about "pei". (http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/c13/s10.html)
Question words like "pei", "ma", and so on, are used for asking questions to whoever you're talking to. You can only ask yourself a question using those words if you're talking to yourself. If you are talking to yourself, e.g., "doi mi i pei", then the questions work just like any other questions. "peise'i" means "What-are-you-feeling, selfishly?", sort-of.
How would one go about saying "both of the cats run", emphasis on the number and the gadri in use. "Both" means that there are two members, but also that all of them do/are similar in some way/apply to the same set (in this case, those that run).
>>1313IIRC loi re mlatu For, the two cats run together.re loi mlatu For, two of the mass of all cats run together.lo re mlatu For, the two cats run independently.re lo mlatu For, two of the cats run independently.Let me know if that isn't exactly what you mean.
>>1313IIRC loi re mlatu For, the two cats run together.re loi mlatu For, two of the mass of all cats run together.lo re mlatu For, the two cats run independently.re lo mlatu For, two of the cats run independently.
Let me know if that isn't exactly what you mean.
http://lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=How+to+use+xorlo&bl=ythis sums it all up nicely.
http://lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=How+to+use+xorlo&bl=y
this sums it all up nicely.
>>1313 ro lo re mlatu cu bajra"Both" is a special word in English, which as you say means "all two". There is no single word equivalent in Lojban, just as English doesn't have single words for "all three", "all four", "all five", etc.
>>1313
ro lo re mlatu cu bajra
"Both" is a special word in English, which as you say means "all two". There is no single word equivalent in Lojban, just as English doesn't have single words for "all three", "all four", "all five", etc.
I've been translating some English verse into Lojban, and was hoping someone would translate it back into English, as a sort of sanity check, to make sure I'm getting my translation right. Being verse (almost poetry), there are some metaphors I've had to destroy to make the Lojban work.The translation is in progress, but it comes in nicely numbered sections, so I'll post a few sections, wait for translations, post the original, and repeat.lu le batke zo'u selju'o do li'u cmene dei ne fi'e la'o la W. Gregory Stewart la zi'e poi xelfanva fo la glibau la xysyli pamo'o la'e dei le batke do selterju'oi pamai lo du'u ko'a batke zo'u do djuno rii remai du'u ko'a puco'i suksa tolcanci ca'u do Comment is too long. Go here to view the full text.
I've been translating some English verse into Lojban, and was hoping someone would translate it back into English, as a sort of sanity check, to make sure I'm getting my translation right. Being verse (almost poetry), there are some metaphors I've had to destroy to make the Lojban work.
The translation is in progress, but it comes in nicely numbered sections, so I'll post a few sections, wait for translations, post the original, and repeat.
lu le batke zo'u selju'o do li'u cmene dei ne fi'e la'o la W. Gregory Stewart la zi'e poi xelfanva fo la glibau la xysyl
i pamo'o la'e dei le batke do selterju'o
i pamai lo du'u ko'a batke zo'u do djuno ri
i remai du'u ko'a puco'i suksa tolcanci ca'u do
> Great for giving directions: "Go north from the hotel, then turn west at the restaurant." "be'avu'a le xotli ku ce'o le gusta".I would prefer: "ko klama lo berti lo xotli gi'ebabo lo stici lo gusta"What you have is just a compound tense, not a command. What selbri would you use? The famous "imaginary journey" of compound tenses is a mental journey that takes you from some reference point to the place where the tensed event takes place, it is not the actual path along which some event takes place, so it is not clear how useful it is for giving directions. I don't recall ever seeing any example of a string of FAhAs that seemed like it could actually be useful in practice. As a theoretical construct, the string of sumti joined with "ce'o" might be how compound tenses as tags could be used. In practice, I don't see how anyone could possibly follow any longish compound, when all the tags are given first and then all the complements.
> Great for giving directions: "Go north from the hotel, then turn west at the restaurant." "be'avu'a le xotli ku ce'o le gusta".
I would prefer: "ko klama lo berti lo xotli gi'ebabo lo stici lo gusta"
What you have is just a compound tense, not a command. What selbri would you use? The famous "imaginary journey" of compound tenses is a mental journey that takes you from some reference point to the place where the tensed event takes place, it is not the actual path along which some event takes place, so it is not clear how useful it is for giving directions. I don't recall ever seeing any example of a string of FAhAs that seemed like it could actually be useful in practice.
As a theoretical construct, the string of sumti joined with "ce'o" might be how compound tenses as tags could be used. In practice, I don't see how anyone could possibly follow any longish compound, when all the tags are given first and then all the complements.
>>1300Yes, yes. I was thinking more in terms of a response to a cu'e question than as a direct translation. Anyway, here's an updated translation:i vomai du'u lo go'i nunfla ca'o fasnu vi loi re gutci a pa mitre xadba ca'u lo do ne'a fliraOnwards! (If this isn't too objectionable.) >>1296
>>1300
Yes, yes. I was thinking more in terms of a response to a cu'e question than as a direct translation. Anyway, here's an updated translation:
i vomai du'u lo go'i nunfla ca'o fasnu vi loi re gutci a pa mitre xadba ca'u lo do ne'a flira
Onwards! (If this isn't too objectionable.) >>1296
i xamai cnita le tapla gi'e simsa fulta gi'e puco'i tolcanci tedu'i lo kamsuksa gi'e simlu dunli fi lo cizra kamrelska vau fa lo jadytapla poi terci'a lu RODA ONAI NODE li'ui zemai ua ie lo slanu zo'u viku pa slanu cu fulta je sraji ne'a le batke e le ri tapla e le jadytapla poi cnita i ko'o labgrusi sedi'o lo dzirai gi'e xekmau ga'u i do ba sajbi'o caze'u lo bavlamcacra lo du'u le labgrusi cu preja ibo ca lo bavlamdei ti'u lo nau tcika do ba sajbi'o lo du'u le labgrusi cu selca'u fi'uze loi sefta be le slanu Comment is too long. Go here to view the full text.
i xamai cnita le tapla gi'e simsa fulta gi'e puco'i tolcanci tedu'i lo kamsuksa gi'e simlu dunli fi lo cizra kamrelska vau fa lo jadytapla poi terci'a lu RODA ONAI NODE li'u
i zemai ua ie lo slanu zo'u viku pa slanu cu fulta je sraji ne'a le batke e le ri tapla e le jadytapla poi cnita i ko'o labgrusi sedi'o lo dzirai gi'e xekmau ga'u i do ba sajbi'o caze'u lo bavlamcacra lo du'u le labgrusi cu preja ibo ca lo bavlamdei ti'u lo nau tcika do ba sajbi'o lo du'u le labgrusi cu selca'u fi'uze loi sefta be le slanu
What does the relative clause in Lojban correpond to in predicate logic? I found this articlehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause_(logic)Not sure if it relates to Lojban.
Relative clauses and logical clauses aren't related, really.Relative clauses in natural languages, and in Lojban, act like extended adjectives: they narrow down the possible choices for modified nouns/sumti (except for noi/ne/no'u, which provide incidental information about nouns). In predicate logic, this is done by putting the nouns/sumti and relative clause into the first part of an implication.da bajra :: runs(X)da poi gerku cu bajra :: dog(X) -> runs(X)
Relative clauses and logical clauses aren't related, really.
Relative clauses in natural languages, and in Lojban, act like extended adjectives: they narrow down the possible choices for modified nouns/sumti (except for noi/ne/no'u, which provide incidental information about nouns). In predicate logic, this is done by putting the nouns/sumti and relative clause into the first part of an implication.
da bajra :: runs(X)da poi gerku cu bajra :: dog(X) -> runs(X)
The following is from 4chan:> Oh yeah, you reminded me that "lojbanists" are usually even worse than "esperantists."http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1249864964
The following is from 4chan:
> Oh yeah, you reminded me that "lojbanists" are usually even worse than "esperantists."
http://dis.4chan.org/read/lang/1249864964
how's it progressing? is it up at some stable place? are editing guidelines and a plan what to migrate/write in place?
Are you talking about my experiments and plans?
i think i do
>>1299There were plans? There was a Timo!?
Whoo! It works! .ui (Now for all the other boards...)
>>1281:http://jbotcan.org/xractu/xractu/xractu.html is back and happy and hopping and wondering if it can get another zo xractu worked into it somehow.>>1276 and friends:xamselsku is also back and happy and hopping.Also I accidentally the site, but I'm not sure anybody has noticed. :P
>>1282Excellent. Though... why is it in a doubled directory?Would you put a link to it on the front page under "Learning materials"? Even though this is in its early stages, I think it has a lot of potential.
>>1282
Excellent. Though... why is it in a doubled directory?
Would you put a link to it on the front page under "Learning materials"? Even though this is in its early stages, I think it has a lot of potential.
Rss feeds, some of the links are broken.. The http:// possibly doesn't contain a : in it.
what happened to it? why did we stop discussing it? who still has the etherpad link?
http://etherpad.com/Y2m2NecV1DIt went dormant because of my laziness and my inability to find a good method of conducting it. Mostly the former, though.mu'o
http://etherpad.com/Y2m2NecV1D
It went dormant because of my laziness and my inability to find a good method of conducting it. Mostly the former, though.
mu'o
why did it stop? who's got to do the next step? is it maybe me? gasp!