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lo da a de broda Anonymous
10/04/05(Mon)02:34 No.1509
lo da a de broda Anonymous 10/04/05(Mon)02:34 No.1509   [Reply] []

According to jbofi'e,

lo pe da a de broda cu brode

is grammatical, but not

lo da a de broda cu brode

... why?

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RE: lo da a de broda pafcribe
10/04/05(Mon)05:49 No.1510 []

I could be totally off, but I will give a crack at it. I think what's happening is that because {da,de,etc...} are pro-sumti, jbofi'e sees {lo da} and expects another sumti (i.e. {lo da mlatu}). So it sees {lo da .a} and gets confused. Meanwhile, the first one is ok because the {pe} puts an implicit {zo'e} in before it... or something? at which point it's fine because it's { (lo zo'e (pe da .a de) broda) cu brode) so the zo'e and broda become a tanru.

If any more certu type folks need to correct me, please do.

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RE: lo da a de broda Hussell
10/04/08(Thu)13:01 No.1516 []

>>1509

{lo da broda} is equivalent to {lo broda pe da}, but only simple sumti are allowed in the first case (i.e., no logically connected sumti). >>1510 is correct about why {lo da a ...} confuses the parser, but {lo pe da e de [ge'u] broda} doesn't have an implicit zo'e; that's just a normal relative phrase, but attached to a different location than normal. It's almost the same as {lo broda pe da e de}. See http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/c8/s6.html for details about where relative phrases can be attached to a sumti.

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brivlacme mechanics Anonymous
10/04/06(Tue)16:22 No.1511
brivlacme mechanics Anonymous 10/04/06(Tue)16:22 No.1511   [Reply] []

Can I fill in the place structure of a brivla sumti, even if I am using it in a name? For example, is la broda be da be'o allowed?

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RE: brivlacme mechanics iurigagarin
10/04/06(Tue)16:33 No.1512 []

yes, it is.

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cmene morphology Hussell
10/01/15(Fri)18:23 No.1458
cmene morphology Hussell 10/01/15(Fri)18:23 No.1458   [Reply] []

I've been doing a careful reading of chapters 3 and 4 of the CLL in an attempt to answer some questions (of my own) about cmene morphology.

Short refresher: there are rules governing which consonants can be adjacent to each other (consonant pairs), which consonant pairs can appear at the beginning of a word (initial consonant pairs), and which groups of three consonants can exist (consonant triples).

From what I can tell, consonant pair rules apply to all words, including cmene, so "akbar" and "djeimz" are both invalid, but initial pair rules and consonant triple rules don't apply to cmene at all, so "mknil" and "andjelin" are both valid cmene. Unfortunately, both jbofi'e and camxes think "andjelin" is an invalid cmene, even though the much more difficult consonant cluster in "mknil" is considered valid by both. Is this an error, or is there a reason to disallow "andjelin" while ignoring all the other consonant triple rules?

Another thing: cmene have penultimate stress by default, although non-default stress can be indicated with capitalization. Syllabic consonants and 'y' syllables are skipped when determining default stress, but it isn't completely clear whether 'iy' and 'uy' syllables are skipped or not. ('iy' and 'uy' diphthongs are allowed in cmene, but nowhere else.) I'm assuming they're skipped.

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RE: cmene morphology Anonymous
10/03/31(Wed)17:01 No.1501 []

>>1463

"kb" cannot be allowed because it is stringing an unvoiced consonant with an adjacent voiced consonant. "ndj" has no such restrictions as nasals (although typically voiced) can be either unvoiced or voiced and the other two are voiced.

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RE: cmene morphology Anonymous
10/03/31(Wed)17:09 No.1502 []

>>1468

Remove the "g", since "n" can operate both as an alveolar nasal or a velar nasal. I disagree with this (I have always agreed with those who advocate the use of eng or another letter representing it for Lojban), but the official rules say that such interpretation is allowed.

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RE: cmene morphology Anonymous
10/03/31(Wed)17:17 No.1503 []

>>1483

My "ch" actually occur in a totally different region of the mouth from my "sh" (as do "dj" from "zh"), although I understand why Lojban represents "ch" as "tc".

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Asimov Anonymous
09/03/04(Wed)01:17 No.1036
Asimov Anonymous 09/03/04(Wed)01:17 No.1036   [Reply] []

Can someone recap what happened in the now-gone discussion on the Four Laws of Robotics?

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RE: Asimov Anonymous
10/03/24(Wed)23:57 No.1496 []

>>1036

I owuld be interested in this topic/discussion.

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RE: Asimov Anonymous
10/03/24(Wed)23:57 No.1497 []

>>1036

I would be interested in this topic/discussion.

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Lojban Word Lookup djeims
10/02/11(Thu)03:24 No.1472
Lojban Word Lookup djeims 10/02/11(Thu)03:24 No.1472   [Reply] []

I made another lookup-script; this time to go with Klipper.

http://jbotcan.org/lojbo_lookup

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determiner "which" Anonymous
10/01/29(Fri)23:31 No.1470
determiner "which" Anonymous 10/01/29(Fri)23:31 No.1470   [Reply] []

How do you ask "Which one is your child?" in Lojban?

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RE: determiner "which" xorxes
10/01/30(Sat)15:31 No.1471 []

There isn't one standard way of saying "which". "Which broda?" can often be "lo mo broda" (but that could also mean "what kind of broda?") or "ma poi broda" or "lo ma broda". It's usually a "mo" or a "ma" combined with something else:

ma panzi do
Who/what is child of you?

For more precision:

ma pe ta panzi do
Who/what of those is child of you?

If by "your child" you don't really mean "offspring of you" but "infant associated with you in this context", it could be:

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xamselsku spam Hugglesworth
09/10/26(Mon)16:42 No.1438
xamselsku spam Hugglesworth 09/10/26(Mon)16:42 No.1438   [Reply] []

I've been noticing an increasing amount of spam being submitted to xamselsku. If you've got some time head down to it and participate in some of that sweet, sweet moderation.

On the same topic. How do the jbotcan forums deal with spam? I'm not seeing an obvious system, but I haven't seen any spam (on the rss at least).

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RE: xamselsku spam djeims
09/10/26(Mon)17:45 No.1439 []

Perhaps the risk of accidentally spamming /b/ is too great? There are some anti-spam measures, there is a file with a list of un-lovable hosts.

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RE: xamselsku spam djeims
10/01/10(Sun)10:59 No.1457 []

I set up a captcha a while back for xamselsku, no moar spam.

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praise broda rarnavon
09/10/26(Mon)02:43 No.1437
praise broda rarnavon 09/10/26(Mon)02:43 No.1437   [Reply] []

The most useful word in Lojban. :P

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KOhA4 Anonymous
09/10/16(Fri)16:21 No.1429
KOhA4 Anonymous 09/10/16(Fri)16:21 No.1429   [Reply] []

"klama lo zarci vo'e" means which:

"klama lo zarci xi pa lo zarci xi pa"
or
"klama lo zarci xi pa lo zarci xi re"
?

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RE: KOhA4 xorxes
09/10/16(Fri)20:02 No.1431 []

klama lo zarci vo'e
= klama lo zarci ri
= klama lo zarci goi ko'a ko'a

If you want to use subscripts, I suggest "lo zarci ku xi pa", with "ku", rather than "lo zarci xi pa", because in the latter the subscript goes with the inner selbri, not with the sumti, so it suggests (possibly) different zarci relationships rather than (possibly) different markets.

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nage ... gi ... Anonymous
09/10/15(Thu)01:16 No.1426
nage ... gi ... Anonymous 09/10/15(Thu)01:16 No.1426   [Reply] []

Is "da nage broda gi brode" grammatical? If so, what does it mean?

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RE: nage ... gi ... remod
09/10/15(Thu)09:18 No.1427 []

For grammaticality I've asked jboski: http://www.lojban.org/jboski/index.php (an online interface to jbofi'e).
It seems that it is grammatical and means:

"X is not both Y and Z"

with Y and Z referring to previous bridi assigned with {cei}.

But I might be wrong ...

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RE: nage ... gi ... Hussell
09/10/15(Thu)14:35 No.1428 []

It means the same as "da ganai broda ginai brode" and "da na broda ija da na brode". In other words, "da" is not both "broda" and "brode", just as >>1427 wrote.

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RE: nage ... gi ... xorxes
09/10/16(Fri)19:56 No.1430 []

>>1427
>>1428

I agree.

(With CLL negation rules it's probably "roda ganai broda ginai brode" though. I say "probably" because I'm not sure whether this particular case is considered explicitly.)

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New to Lojban grimless
09/10/14(Wed)03:30 No.1422
New to Lojban grimless 09/10/14(Wed)03:30 No.1422   [Reply] []

coi everyone! I'm new to Lojban and am looking at getting into the community and learning more about it. I'm very interested in Lojban and would like to improve my usage by immersing myself in the culture. Where is the best place to start to learn Lojban, any tips/tricks? Thanks for the help and I look forward to lojbaning with you!

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Learning suggestions cribe
09/10/14(Wed)05:49 No.1423 []

coi grimless
I would suggest lurking the IRC and listening to the conversations people have (the relevant ones at least). Depending on your tolerance for technical terms you can learn by reading the Complete Lojban Language (a draft version is freely available on the lojban website) nearly front to back. A bit of a suggestion is to find a word list sorted by frequency (again available on the website) and mark or note the frequency score next to each word in the "words discussed in this section" lists. I say this because it really tells you where to pay close attention. When writing my own lojban, I use jboski (a parser) to test my syntax. Finally, I suggest using some of the learning software on the website to grow your vocabulary while you learn from the book.
Have fun!

Disclaimer: I am (somewhat of) a beginner too. =D

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Learning Suggestions grimless
09/10/14(Wed)06:06 No.1424 []

Thanks for the suggestions! I will be sure to do all of those! Thanks again and I hope to see you around.

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RE: New to Lojban omologos
09/10/15(Thu)01:13 No.1425 []

I suggest "lojban for beginners" or "what is lojban". Both available at lojban.org . If you are interested in the lojban community, the best place is #lojban at freenode.

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ro Anonymous
09/10/11(Sun)21:41 No.1418
ro Anonymous 09/10/11(Sun)21:41 No.1418   [Reply] []

Why is it that "lo ro djedi" means "everyday" and "lo ro moi djedi" means "the last day"? How is "every" related to "last"?

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RE: ro Anonymous
09/10/12(Mon)06:44 No.1419 []

Uhhh...
Everyday = plain, ordinary, unremarkable.
Every day = each day

Clarify your meaning, then we'll clarify ours.

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RE: ro rarnavon
09/10/12(Mon)06:55 No.1420 []

It MAY be that who did it tried to convert ro into a number. However I guess that, if it worked would refer to the infinitely last day. Why not pavprucabydei ?

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RE: ro Hussell
09/10/13(Tue)16:30 No.1421 []

>>1418

Well, "ro" is a numeral in Lojban, equivalent to "2" or "7" or "te'o". Lojban extends the cardinal (group of N members) vs ordinal (the Nth member) distinction to all numerals, so one can speak about "2mei" (a pair; a group of 2 things) and "romei" (a complete group; a group of N things, where N = the total number of things), and one can speak about "2moi" (the 2nd thing, the Nth thing where N = 2) and "romoi" (the "every-th" thing, the Nth thing, where N = the total number of things). One can use any word in PA in this way, so one can speak about the "few-th" thing ("so'umoi", the Nth thing, where N = a small number), or the "enough-th" thing ("raumoi", the Nth thing, where N = the number of things which is enough). I hope this helps.

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jbobau cmacrkalkiulasa Anonymous
09/09/21(Mon)20:36 No.1415
jbobau cmacrkalkiulasa Anonymous 09/09/21(Mon)20:36 No.1415   [Reply] []

Could someone show me how to use the calculus operations of differentiation (sa'o) and integration (ri'o)?

I also am newish to calculus, so I do not even know what "over range c" means for integration. I know that the derivative has "of degree c", so if c were to be 2, wouldn't that be the second derviative of the function with respect to some variable? Is this kind of the same thing for integration, just called differently? If not, how would I say the double integral of the function with respect to some variable?

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RE: jbobau cmacrkalkiulasa djeims
09/09/23(Wed)07:54 No.1416 []

I am not a newbie to calculus (IMO), however, I've sadly not made much use of the mekso.

I suppose you've been doing derivatives at this point, and maybe you know that integration "undoes" derivation. If you've been paying attention, you'll've noticed that when you derive something, it drops the constants. And, from f'(x)'s point of view, that number could have been anything.

So, one of the ways that you deal with this is you evaluate the integral at one value, then at another value, and subtract the two. The subtraction cancels out whatever that constant would be.

(Of course, now I'm wondering how the limits of integration, and the indefinite integral, would be written)

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on integration limit lamelnyk
09/09/23(Wed)18:09 No.1417 []

>>1416

"bi'o" for limits and "zi'o" for indefinite?

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Distance Anonymous
09/09/16(Wed)20:45 No.1401
Distance Anonymous 09/09/16(Wed)20:45 No.1401   [Reply] []

How do you express "broda right in front of ko'a"?

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RE: Distance xorxes
09/09/18(Fri)12:26 No.1412 []

>>1411

"ki" is used to fix a reference point, so the term "ki ko'a" will fix "ko'a" as the reference point.

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RE: Distance Anonymous
09/09/19(Sat)22:40 No.1413 []

>>1412

Isn't that the other way around? According to CLL, "ki" works left-wise:
http://www.lojban.org/no/publications/reference_grammar/chapter10.html

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RE: Distance xorxes
09/09/19(Sat)23:24 No.1414 []

>>1413

"ki" will be the last member in a compound tag, but "ko'a" is the tagged sumti, not part of the tag. The tagged sumti comes after the tag.

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Homonyms Anonymous
09/09/16(Wed)11:30 No.1400
Homonyms Anonymous 09/09/16(Wed)11:30 No.1400   [Reply] []

At first, I found Lojban's rafsi system inconvenient, as the forms are not always predictable (e.g. "cal" and "ca'u" of "canlu"), while in Esperanto every word's stem form for a compound is predictable (e.g. "spac" of "spaco" by simply leaving out the suffix). But the Lojban rafsi may actually be a good thing. They never form into a homonym. But the Esperanto stems sometimes do. Examples:

filino
=> fil-in-o (son girl = daughter)
=> fi-lin-o (dirty linen)

propraokule
=> propr-a-okul-e (proper eye)
=> propr-a-ok-ul-e (proper eight guy)
=> pro-pra-okul-e (due-to ancient eye)
=> pro-pra-ok-ul-e (due-to ancient eight guy)

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RE: Homonyms Anonymous
09/09/17(Thu)05:17 No.1403 []

There are plenty of similar-sounding words (egg vs. soda), and there are many cmavo that are the same as rafsi, so it's fun to play on mishearing cmavo as rafsi applied as a lujvo.

Example: {mi ca'o klama}

Means (and can only mean): I continue to go.
Funny mishearing: I window-go.

You can't have {ca'oklama} as a lujvo because it fails to have a cluster in the first five letters. So, it's funny, but we really don't have anything that falls apart like that (see 'tosmabru'), but it's funny to reply, when one says {mi ca'o broda}, with {ma canko}.

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RE: Homonyms .lindar.
09/09/17(Thu)07:17 No.1404 []

>>1403

mi'e la .lindar.

(New machine!)

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RE: Homonyms Hussell
09/09/17(Thu)14:14 No.1406 []

>>1400

There's a small list of Esperanto homonyms at:
http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/w.html

The rules for building Lojban compound-words (lujvo) are designed so that there's only one possible way to break apart each word. Theoretically, a fu'ivla can have multiple definitions, but in practice when this happens both remain as type-3 fu'ivla, with a classifier rafsi attached to the front to distinguish which meaning is intended.

>>1403

Technically, "ca'oklama" has a consonant cluster in the first five non-apostrophe, non-"y" letters. "ca'o" breaks off in this case because the consonant cluster "kl" is a valid initial cluster, and "ca'o" doesn't have any stress. "ca'orklama" is a lujvo because "rk" isn't a valid initial cluster, and "ca'okla" is a lujvo because the "o" is stressed.

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