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File: 1208939125231.jpg -(65123 B, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. [Oekaki]
65123 No.30  

Up until recently, the cmavo list (lojban: ma'oste, cmavo zei liste) seemed to me like a boundless sea of confusion. I felt sure, on some unconscious level, that I would never run out of confusing new cmavo to encounter. In fact I have begun to see the light at the end of the tunnel! When I look over the ma'oste now, I feel a lot less overwhelmed. Now that it's all just various stuff I recognize, it seems a lot smaller. :)

This is a first attempt to try to pass that feeling of comprehensibility to you. This is just a draft list going through the ma'oste of what higher-level categories I think of things in.

It's interesting to note that BAI and UI alone make up a large part of the list.

Is there anything in particular from this list y'all would like to hear more about?

... and that's it. :) No endless boundless seas of cmavo, only a comprehensible human language. Phew.

>> No.34  

Nice diagram! (Can we get Oekaki on this board, too?)

This is a nice comprehensive list. If I get stuck with cmavo in “Lojban for Beginners”, I'll definitely ask here (and most probably will if I don't out of interest! .u'i).

>> No.43  

Can you say erasure stuff in verbal conversation or would that be confusing?

>> No.51  


You absolutely should use proper erasure in all situations! It's the opposite of confusing. :) (lojban for the opposite of confusing, btw: "to'e cfipu")

In English we'll say various things to indicate erasure, such as hesitation words like "uh" or "um", and negation words like "no". For instance you might say: "I went to the bank.. uh, wait, no.. the park." A combination of tone, uncertain words, and often a bit of backtracking shows that you're making a correction.

The equivalent erasure word in Lojban is "sa", and after practice it's just as natural to use in speech (though it is not in fact easily machine parseable). "sa" simply means "erase backwards far enough so that the next thing I say fits and makes sense."

The example above in Lojban would be: "mi klama lo banxa sa lo panka". Since the correction starts with "lo", you know that it only goes back as far as replacing "lo banxa". If you said "mi klama lo banxa sa citka lo plise" (I went to the bank, uh, I mean, ate an apple), since after the "sa" is a selbri, the selbri "klama" is erased as well. If you say ".i" after "sa" it erases the whole sentence you started to say.

Proper erasure is indeed used in all kinds of Lojban conversation, and turns out to be very clear and useful. :)

>> No.52  

Ohh! That's really cool. I get it now. I guess it kind of is similar to English erasure! (I just practised saying it in casual conversation. u'i)

>> No.174  

First, thanks. You are like the ultimate Lojban For Beginners Living-Reference Guide-Person Thing. Wow, that was long/confusing/a mouthful. I hope it made sense, though.

Second, I probably will be needing your help with a lot of cmavo.

The real response: In ".i mi klama va .i mi citke lo plise sa sa loi plise cu xamgu" do I replace everything or just the "klama" bridi? Thanks.

>> No.178  


As I understand it, the amount erased by "sa" is somewhat vague. I could imagine it making sense to erase two sentences by saying "sa .i si sa .i" "si" always erases precisely one word, so it's possible to precisely backtrack by saying a bunch of "si"s, if you really wanted to. "su" erases everything you've said, it's sort of like "you know what? never mind..."

>> No.179  



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