http://jbotcan.org/cllc/c11/s7.html

"du'u" is an abstractor, which means that it takes an embedded bridi and then refers to something about that bridi. "nu" refers to the event of the bridi happening. "si'o" refers to an idea of the bridi as had by some thinker. "du'u" refers to the very fact of the bridi, the fact that (such and such).

lo nu mi klama le zarci [kei] [ku] = an event of "i go to the store"... lo nu mi klama le zarci cu fasnu (i go to the store is a fasnu, it happens.. it's an event)

lo si'o mi klama le zarci [kei] [ku] = an idea of "i go to the store".. mi te sidbo fi lo si'o mi klama le zarci (i have an idea of me going to the store)

lo du'u mi klama le zarci [kei] [ku] = the very fact that i go to the store.. xu do krici lo du'u mi klama le zarci (do you believe the fact "i go to the market"?) .i mi djuno lo du'u zo du'u cu cinri (i know the fact that "the word du'u is interesting")

Most gismu about believing or knowing or whatever will have a "du'u" place. If you know that I went to the store, you don't actually know the event itself of me going to the store. You don't know the idea of me going, either, you think the idea of me going. What you do to my going is to know the fact of it, the du'u of it.

.ua pei

mi'e se ckiku

>>584

Does du'u have a place structure? How does this work with se?

What do you mean by "zo du'u"? What about the word is interesting? Its meaning or usage? Its spelling/sounding? Its history? I am asking this because I want to figure out how zo works.

>>586

Yes, du'u has a place structure - si'o, nu and the other NU also do:

du'u NU bridi abstract

                abstractor: predication/bridi abstractor; x1 is
                predication [bridi] expressed in sentence x2

si'o NU concept abstract

                abstractor: idea/concept abstractor; x1 is x2's
                concept of [bridi]

nu NU event abstract

                abstractor: generalized event abstractor; x1 is
                state/process/achievement/activity of [bridi]

>>586

"zo" is just a one-word quote, which means that it turns the next word into a reference to that word. zo plise == the word "plise", for instance: "zo plise is a five letter word." it's very convenient and i often miss it in english (or import it, in lojbanic circles!)

many things about zo du'u are interesting to me! it's an interesting semantics, but it's even more interesting how the jbopre relate to it. people are always asking about zo du'u and getting weird explanations.

ok so about the place structure and using it with 'se'. it's pretty simple really. the first place of zo du'u is a proposition, and the second place is an expression of that proposition. so:

lo fatci ku du'u mi citka lo badna kei lu lo badna mi se citka li'u

Oh no, seeing that sentence through your eyes makes me regret saying that it's simple. :) But let's just take it apart into three parts:

lo fatci ku -- a fact. this is the x1.

du'u mi citka lo badna kei -- this is the selbri, a du'u/kei with a bridi inside: "mi citka lo badna", i eat a banana. so this selbri means, x1 is the proposition that i eat a banana, as expressed in text x2, which is what comes next:

lu lo badna mi se citka li'u -- lu/li'u quotes the bridi "lo badna mi se citka", which is just another way of saying the same thing, i eat a banana.

so let's switch things up with "se":

lu mi badna citka li'u ba'e SE du'u mi badna citka kei lo fatci -- "I banana eat" is a bridi expressing the proposition that I banana eat, which is a fact. ("ba'e" just means "pay extra attention to the next word", emphasis on the next word)

Not all du'u are facts... "lu mi citka lo plini li'u cu se du'u mi lo plini cu citka kei lo mutce jitfa" -- "I eat a planet" is a way of saying that I eat a planet, which is a very false proposition.

So one way that "se du'u" is often used is for instance with "cusku": mi pu cusku lo se du'u mi citka lo badna -- I said that I ate a banana. I said some text which expressed the proposition of my eating a banana-- it's more vague than quoting: I might have said "mi citka lo badna" or I might have said "lo badna mi cu se citka" or I might have said "badna .ui citka fa mi", but I said something that expressed that I eat a banana.

.ua pei .ui .i'i mu'o mi'e selkik